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Compensation for sin

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Compensation for sin Empty Compensation for sin

Post by Carlos Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:31 am

Hi Guys,

I was hoping someone can help me understand philosophically from an Islamic point of view the following scenario.

We all can agree it’s impossible for Allah to lie because it’s against his nature he is incapable of lying. From my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) if a Muslim commits many sins and he says the minute before he dies with a sincere heart “There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet” that person is saved.

If this is so how can Allah cancel away all his sins without a demand for compensation? Allah’s integrity has been offended by a person’s sin, his integrity demands justice. Being a human being that person cannot compensate the damage that has been done because the eternal has been offended by someone who is finite. If a sacrifice of some kind has not been offered up to Allah for compensation then Allah would be lying to his own integrity.

I hope someone can help me out here Question

Carlos
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Compensation for sin Empty Re: Compensation for sin

Post by Elm Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:08 am

Carlos wrote:Hi Guys,

I was hoping someone can help me understand philosophically from an Islamic point of view the following scenario.

We all can agree it’s impossible for Allah to lie because it’s against his nature he is incapable of lying. From my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) if a Muslim commits many sins and he says the minute before he dies with a sincere heart “There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet” that person is saved.

If this is so how can Allah cancel away all his sins without a demand for compensation? Allah’s integrity has been offended by a person’s sin, his integrity demands justice. Being a human being that person cannot compensate the damage that has been done because the eternal has been offended by someone who is finite. If a sacrifice of some kind has not been offered up to Allah for compensation then Allah would be lying to his own integrity.

I hope someone can help me out here Question

Hello Carlos
We both agree on this Carlos. God does not lie. We see humans lying for greed, fear, or jealousy. But for the One who has no partners , can not be harmed or reached ,and is above all, Can we say He lies? Of course, we can not. Also, you mentioned one of God's attributes which is truthfulness, and you said there must be justice which is very important. All values have restrictions and limits but justice.
Now ,let's get away from the topic and think about this story:
There is a slave who never did what his master always asked him to do. He did things to hurt and harm his master. After years, he regretted everything he did and went to his master apologizing and asking for forgiveness. The master accepted the apology and forgave the slave.
We can look at this story from two sides:
The first one is the master…whatever his slave did, the master was not harmed. He also had other slaves so he did not need this slave but he accepted the apology because he was forgiving and merciful. So, what do you think….can mercy and justice go together?
The second one is the slave. He went apologizing because he regretted everything he did to the master. And he was sincere and determined that he would change and be good. Now, let's say the slave died after he was forgiven. And his master attended his funeral out of respect towards him. Can we say the master is not just because he attended the funeral?


Another story to think about which has a slave and a master too.
A slave always did what his master asked him to do. But deep down he hated the master. One day he tried to kill his master. But for some reason , the attempt failed. And when the master knew his slave hated him and was trying to kill him, he punished him and put him in prison.
Do you think the good things the slave did for his master in the past would save him? And do you think the master should forgive the slave if he asks for forgiveness ,even though his slave hates him and will try again to kill him?

This is an example and Allah (God) is above all that.

God does not need actions. We need to do good deeds that grant us paradise. But intention comes first to God.
And if we sin and regret that later and we say there is no God worthy of worship except Allah "sincerely and honestly" but then die and can not have a chance to do good deeds, but God knows our intention and that we would do good deeds , and we are saved, then it is God's mercy that has saved us.
Elm
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Compensation for sin Empty Re: Compensation for sin

Post by Carlos Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:36 am

Hi Elm,

I understand what you’re saying; let me put it another way:

If I stole your watch then came back to my senses and said to you “brother Elm I’m sorry I stole your watch” would you still forgive me if I did not return your watch but only apologised? When we commit sin against Allah we offend his dignity in a manner of speaking we steal his dignity, his dignity would demand justice. I’m not saying Allah is not merciful; of course he is but he cannot lie to his own dignity at the same time.

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Post by Carlos Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:29 am

Hence Jesus the second person of the holy Trinity Almighty God took flesh and dewlt among us and offered up his sacrafice to the Father in atonement for the sins of humanity thereby redemming us.

This sounds the most logical to me unless someone else can present to me a different view that would sound more logical...

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Post by Elm Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:06 pm

hello carlos
injustice is corrected by justice and punishment. It can not be corrected by another injustice. I do not find it just if someone dies to bear others' sins.
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Post by Carlos Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:01 am

That was the point of the sacrifice; offence was justified by punishment Jesus FREELY took upon himself for the remission of sins out of LOVE for us.

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Post by EgyptianMuslim Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:35 pm

if a Muslim commits many sins and he says the minute before he dies with a sincere heart “There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet” that person is saved.

here u r talking about something called "good end", do u think any person deserve that kind of End?
it depend on what he lived in all his/her life, and (specially) the last moments or days in their life, cause deeds counted by ends. or like (all's well that ends well).. or maybe like in slang (he laughs best who laughs last)

Good End is something not controlled by ppl themselves, but only Allah choose who have the good end and who don't..
u can't live all ur life in sins then expect good end??
another thing, no one can know his end and how it will seem, he maybe a good man very good in his life, but at the end of his life he does something bad.. as the next Hadeeth explains:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "By Him besides whom there is no god, one of you will act like the people of Paradise until between him and Paradise there remains but the distance of a cubit, when what is written overtakes him and he begins to act like the denizens of Hell and thus enters Hell.
And another amongst will act in the way of the denizens of Hell, until there remains between him and Hell a distance of a cubit, then what is written overtakes him and then he begins to act like the people of Paradise and enters Paradise." [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (3208) and Sahîh Muslim (2643)]

so, who would be able to prounce Shehada b4 his/her deah, then they must be very lucky, and having a great blessing from God, and who can't mention it, here one would feel worry.. it's not controlled as i mentioned b4
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